Wednesday, March 6, 2013

Sounds more like "11 Signs You Might Be A Straw MRA"

Last week I saw this tweet in my feed.
So #MRA guys, if this was said in less mocking language which ideas would you agree or disagree with? http://jcatgrl.tumblr.com/post/43529656058/skully-pens-11-signs-youre-a-mens-rights-activist …
Well me and my pro MRA self couldn't resist. Now let's just ignore for the time being that the person that made this tweet was a feminist that prefaced the asking of if we agree with the ideas on that shirt with asking us to ignore the mocking language. I want to go straight into the points listed on the shirt.

11 Signs You're A Men's Rights Activist :
1. You have no problem with the gender wage gap. But you hate having to pay for dates. 
2. You insist that it’s a scientifically proven fact that men are stronger than women. But you complain about society believing that it’s worse for a man to hit a woman than for a woman to hit a man. 
3. You believe that the age of consent is unfair and that there’s nothing wrong with having sex with teenage girls. But when you find out that a teenage girl enjoys sex, you believe she’s the biggest slut in the world. 
4. You hate when a woman automatically assumes that a man is a douchebag before getting to know him. But when you like a woman who likes another man, you assume he’s a douchebag just because he’s not you. 
5. You believe that if women want equality, they should be drafted into the military. But you also believe that the military is not a place for women. 
6. You hate when women assume that men are like wild animals. But you believe that a woman who doesn’t cover up and make herself invisible to men is just like someone wearing a meat suit around wild animals. 
7. You hate the fact that men are bullied for not conforming to their male gender roles. But when you find out that a man disagrees with your beliefs about women’s rights, your immediate response is to try to emasculate him by comparing him to a woman as an insult. 
8. You hate when women assume that there are no nice guys. But you call yourself a nice guy and act like it’s a rare quality that should cause women to be all over you. 
9. You hate when women assume that men just want to get laid. But when you find out that a man is a feminist, you assume that he’s just doing it to get laid. 
10. You hate when women make generalizations about all men. But when a woman calls you out for being sexist, you claim that all men think like you. 
11. You insist that women should be responsible for protecting themselves from being raped. But when they follow the one piece of advice that actually works, which is being aware of red flags, you complain about them assuming that all men are rapists.


1. No the problem I have with the gender wage gap discourse is that feminists will on one hand cherry pick/exaggerate how big it is then when called on it switch to saying that it's not about the size of the gap. If the gap is so bad (and it is) then why exaggerate/cherry pick? Now if you want to ask me if I have a problem with it then yes I do.

I have a problem with the gap because it forces an imbalance where men are held up as being useful for the money they bring and women are limited in how much money they can bring in. You would know this if you actually asked me instead of telling me what I think.

2. The reason MRAs have a problem with that is because on one hand we are told that all violence is bad and that women are equal to men...until it comes to the capacity for violence it seems. At which time those things are forgotten

It also doesn't help that the whole bigger/stronger thing is used to the point that even in cases when the woman is the aggressor it is still presumed that the male must be the aggressor. Why? Because he is bigger/stronger. And I guess women can't use weapons or something?

I myself actually would only say that for the most part men are stronger than women and even then that alone is not enough to prosecute cases of violence between partners.

In short the problem is that "men are stronger than women" becomes the bar by which all partner violence is measured and all other factors are ignored.

3. That's a new one to me. I say this because one of my own pet peeves about the age of consent thing in relation to sex is that when an under aged boy is statutory raped by a woman it is treated as a lesser crime than when a man does it to a girl.

So based on the fact that I would like to say all statutory rape taken seriously I'm not sure how I'm believing that age of consent is unfair and that I support sex with teenage girls, I'm not sure what this person is going on about.

A lot of the MRAs I've talked to don't want to have sex with under age girls.

Is this "sign" just a smear tactic thrown into the mix? Like saying that people who file share support child porn?

4. Now they are trying to weave the Nice Guy thing into it. No actually when I call a guy a jerk I actually know something about him that indicates jerkish behavior. But you keep on believing its Sour Grapes.

5. Wrong on two parts. Firstly I don't think that anyone should be drafted into the military. As for Selective Service I think that should be an all or none. (Unless there is an age where women have to sign up for it or face penalties that include automatic rejection of any federal based financial aid, automatic rejection of applications to state funded schools, and rejection of citizenship.) Ideally I'd want that to be none but my next option would be all.

Secondly I believe that the military is a place for anyone that meet the standards and wants to be there.

6. Just no. Fucking no. Yeah I hate it when women assume men are like wild animals. But I sure as hell don't think women that don't cover up are like meat suits. Honestly I don't consider such women that much. I take a moment to look and keep on going.

On the other hand I do have a problem with women that will go as far as to accuse any guy that looks at her of objectifying her. Bonus points if they somehow use the keywords, "meat", "pleasure", and extra bonus points if she tries to bootstrap it to rape. Because we all know that looking at a woman is like raping her right?

7. Funny. All I do is say that I disagree with them.

8. Again with the Nice Guy stuff. No mention of women that say there are no nice guys, turn around and call a guy nice, then turn him down when he shows interest? Sounds to me that the problem isn't that there aren't any nice guys but rather there are no nice guys that she is interested in. Two very different things.

If she's not interested in the ones that are around her cool, that's her choice. But she doesn't get to say that there are no nice guys just because she can't find one to her liking.

9. This doesn't even make any sense to me.

10. I usually just question her claim.

11. No. I say that they should play a part in protecting themselves from rapists, which is what I say about any other crime in fact. And like any other crime I would say it's not right to go around assuming people are criminals based on a randomly generated characteristic.

(By all that is holy not that is not victim blaming. There is still a separation between thinking people should play a part in preventing crimes against them and not blaming them when that crime is committed against them. "Watch out at night." is NOT the same thing as "You deserved to be raped.")

And also it doesn't help to assume that all men are rapists (or throw in a "potential" for plausible deniability) but then hold them solely responsible for protecting you from rape because they are men. Wouldn't that mean you're holding potential rapists responsible for ending rape?

So which is it? Rape is like any other crime where EVERYONE, including potential victims play a part in protecting people from or is rape that one special crime where the potential victim has absolutely no part to play?

Odd. I'm pro-MRA and I don't exhibit any of these 11 signs. Which tells me that she is taking what she has seen among some MRAs and then trying to present that as representation of the whole.

I see that the writer of that post if a feminist. I'm pretty sure I could write out a list of signs that one may be a feminist (like "1.You say you want men to be more active in the push for gender equality. But when they do so without joining feminism you say they are hurting the cause.") and list outrageous things like that but of course THAT would be unfair right?

And the messed up part is even as I live and breath and don't fit any of those signs most feminists would rather try to force them onto me than accept that the maybe, just maybe, they don't have all MRA types figured out yet (my money is on 11).

Oh well
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