Thursday, August 11, 2011

Third question about porn

Alright now that part 2 has been up for a while I'll share the answers I got.

From Clarrisa:
The nature of one's sexual preference is not ideological. It's just sexual preference. There are people who are into BDSM or sex with sexually innocent partners or the golden shower or sexual defecation or a facial or anything else. Such a genuine sexual preference doesn't "mean" anything about them and doesn't characterize them as human beings. It's just what they are into sexually. If they can find a consenting partner (or many partners), that's great.
(That's not her entire answer go back to the post for the entire thing.)

From profacero:
Consider *enthusiastic* consent, not the *OK, OK, I'll let you do this just so we can then move on* type of "consent".

On the question of whether it is possible to map fantasies to personalities, I'll buck current dogma and say yes ... just not in a simplistic way.


From James:
To me, it would depend on how that man approached the woman about it. If he just...did it, or if he pressured her to do it, then yes, it's absolutely degrading. If he asks and she agrees without much thought, then it's really up to her. I kinda find it wrong for us to decide what's degrading for other people.


From April:
A sexual proclivity is only disrespectful if it does not involve consent or personal consideration for the wishes of the sexual partner(s). If a woman wants a guy to ejaculate on her face, I can't see why anyone could justify challenging that desire... assuming it is really a desire of hers, of course. On the other hand, I also see aboslutely no problem with a person agreeing to certain sexual activities that s/he may not be 100% enthusiastic about themeslves, for the sole purpose of doing something to please their partner.
(Like Clarissa this is only a portion of her entire answer.)

So on to the next question.

Why are people so hung up and hell bent on trying to use someone's (especially men's) sexual proclivities as an indicator of their personality?

As in why is there a leap from "he likes to give women facials" to "why does he want to do that to women? there MUST be something at work in his mind that indicates a lack of respect for women.".

I'll admit I myself find the idea interesting and would like to try it one day. Yes it is something I've seen in the porn I've seen in my day. Yeah part of it is a desire to assert control and dominance in a sexual setting. Is there something wrong with the idea of wanting to assert dominance in a sexual setting? I don't think there is but a lot of people do seem to think that wanting to try something they saw on a porno is an inherently bad thing (well that seems to be the case when its something that men are doing or wanting to do).

I guess what I'm getting at is that even though sex is something that is close and intimate people seem to go a bit too far with trying to use sex as an indication of a person's being. Yeah I'd like to try giving a woman (or a man for that matter) a facial one day and its something I first saw watching porn. Does that mean that I MUST harbor some sort of ill will towards women (yeah noticed that did you?)?

7 comments:

EasilyEnthused said...

I am highly skeptical that our sexual propensities are magically cooked up by some unknowable cerebral fortune cookie.

Without revealing too much - I want to point to two instances in my life that formed my tastes. I am very, very vanilla. I have no desire to be submissive or dominant - and I prefer the act to be like a dance between people.
However, I have a strong attraction to red heads with freckles and fair skin. I didn't know it when I first developed this attraction, but later I was flipping through an old photo album and saw a picture of my babysitter at age 2-4 - red hair, freckles, fair skin and slightly overweight. I don't remember her myself, but my parents told me that I loved being watched by her, and would often fall asleep on her chest after getting a bath from her. Read into that what you may.

Secondly, my mother told me sex was painful for women and that they didn't enjoy it - it terrified me - and now I see that in my current tastes.

I absolutely MUST be getting very, very enthusiastic responses from women I'm with - or else I cannot continue. I have never, ever desired any sort of sadistic activities and I find the idea of BDSM to be personally abhorrent.

Now I want to speak about someone else whom I know very well - she would not appreciate it if I identified her.
She likes to be lightly bit on the back, likes being tied up, and is turned on by very well endowed men.
She also grew up on a horse farm and that was how she learned about the birds and the bees.

(If you've never seen horses mate, they tie up the female horse, so she can't get away, then the stallion mounts her and often bites the mare's back or neck during sex.)

Those two pieces of knowledge make me almost sure that our proclivities are created in some way at a young age. (Not sexual orientation, though, I think that is developed before birth.)

Now, back to you Danny - I don't know all of your experiences growing up. There might be something that you don't remember very clearly because you didn't consciously register it as important at the time.

For example, maybe a girl you were friends with, or liked, reacted completely grossed out when you accidentally got saliva on her - which hurt your feelings. So maybe a woman enjoying you giving her a facial could be some sort of catharsis regarding that girl's rejection of your bodily fluids so long ago. [Obviously, I am not saying I think this happened, I'm just giving an example of a type of "unimportant, forgettable event" that could shape your modern desires.]

I realize that this is Freudian - but I still think it's entirely reasonable. Much of Freud has been debunked - but that doesn't mean everything was rubbish.

One tragic way I think this manifests itself is with child sexual abuse - hurt people hurt people, dontchaknow.

Danny said...

Wow I wouldn't be surprised if you hit the 3000 character limit.

I can dig what you're saying. In fact I took a few free moments today to think about my preference of older/old women. As a kid I spent a lot of time around my grandmothers (as in my parents are at work and I would be at my grandmother's house til they got off). When I was doing the whole "horny teenage boy" thing I actually spent more time checking out the teachers than the girls my age. And even to this day I'm more likely to check out older/old women then women my own age (I'm 30 BTW).

(You hypothetical example about facials.)
You could be on to something there. One thing I've noticed about people who seem to want to use other people's tastes in sex and porn as a tell all map of their personality is that they seem to only go far enough to point out "something's wrong with you". I get the feeling people don't want actually talk about what happened to your hypothetical guy here. No they want to point out how gross he is for wanting to give a woman a facial, talk about how that must indicate that he harbors ill will towards women, and demand he fix is problem by learning to respect women. Maybe if your guy here got a moment to talk about that situation he may work his way through it properly and change his behavior.

My point is acting like these men just created this behavior out of nowhere, acting like that ill will towards women just came from nowhere, and acting like that the only way such men will change is if they shut up and "get over it" (and bear in mind being shut out may have a hand in why they turned out that way to start with) is an ultimate dead end and nothing will change IMO.


I realize that this is Freudian - but I still think it's entirely reasonable. Much of Freud has been debunked - but that doesn't mean everything was rubbish.

One tragic way I think this manifests itself is with child sexual abuse - hurt people hurt people, dontchaknow.

Yes while Freud may not be the end all be all he once was that certainly doesn't mean that his work was void of merit. As for the abuse yes that is a tragedy. There are a lot of people who are sexual predators who themselves were victims (Toy Soldier touches on this sometimes) of abuse. Of course I'm not trying to say that explains all sexual abuse or that its okay because they were victims in the past. However I do think that if we as a society are to make any real progress in sex abuse we have to quit being so selective about when we care about victims. How many times have we seen young male victims be shut out while at the same time ignoring older male perps who say they were once abused. Maybe if someone had helped them in the past when they needed it some of them would not have gone on to become perps themselves.

EasilyEnthused said...

Exactly - would anyone else like to comment on any childhood/pre-sexual experiences that they think influenced their adult predispositions?

EasilyEnthused said...

Dropping back in here to mention an interesting news item.
Given my situation above with my babysitter - whom I now think strongly affected my development "down there" - Check out this news story:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7474758/Baby-boys-who-have-a-nanny-turn-into-womanisers.html

EasilyEnthused said...

Also, Danny, you should watch this. Especially when she talks about her father and being "turned on" by big, masculine, dirty hands.
http://www.metmuseum.org/connections/hands/#/Feature/

Danny said...

Interesting.

Danny said...

Thanks for the link EE.

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