Monday, January 31, 2011

I'm not so sure its the "will of the people"


From speaker.gov.


I knew full well that when I said I was gonna step back from gender for a bit that gender discourse would not pause until I returned. So I'm gonna come back from my seclusion for just a bit to say something.

Have to say I really don't like the idea of cutting off taxpayer funding for abortion. Needless to say there are good reasons to justify it and I just don't think its the will of the people to cut off that funding nor do I think they are listening to the people.

So no I do not support HR3.


(However I do have one other thing to say. I'm sure it will be tempting to pull out the "men don't get to have a say in abortion" argument. Bear in mind that this is not just about abortion rights but a matter of using tax payer money for abortion. And the last time I checked while not having a uterus men pay taxes too. So that argument is going to come off sounding like they shouldn't have a say in where the tax money that they pay goes. So while a man may have no business in whether or not a woman should or can get an abortion you're fooling yourself if you think you can use his gender to shut him out of the conversation of whether or not the tax money he pays, just like you do, goes towards them.)

7 comments:

womanistmusings said...

I call bullshit. Men have a right because they pay taxes? I wonder what you would say if women had something to pay about treatment of testicular cancer? Cisgender women certainly don't have those but it would be wrong to question treatment for that through women pay taxes right.

Danny said...

Oh no said women can say what they want but I'd write them off as jerks just as you would write men that support this hr3 as jerks.

I just don't like the idea of telling someone they must take part in a process but then cut them out of being able to say anything about it.

Jim said...

That and these are our kids too. Hardly a minor point.

rox said...

I understand Danny. I have so many mixed feelings on this. It seems so unfair that men can't have any say but it would seem so unfair if men DID have a say, you know?

My mother got pregnant with me and my dad wanted to keep me and she didn't think it was a good idea. He didn't feel like he had a right to decide what happened with my life because it was all her choice. He still wonders if he should have exercized(sp?) his right to parent instead of just signing the adoption papers as she asked and allowing me to be adopted into a family where I would never know any of my biological family until I was 18.

It still haunts him. The true brunt of the pain fell on my mother whose entire life was ruined and my dad has a good life, a loving wife and three kids (he got his (not yet)wife pregnant three months after I was born).

Sometimes he's callous about the amount my mom's life has been wrecked after losing me and it makes me angry.

Hmmm. Nice to meet you! Yay random internet sharing! wahahahahah

Danny said...

Thanks for dropping by rox. I'm sorry about the circumstances around your birth

Yeah there seems to be a real problem with balancing how much say one person can have in a situation that no matter direct or indirect affects them.

On one hand "her body her choice" rings true however these days it seems like its morphed into "her choice his responsibility" as in she makes all the choices and he just has to suck it up and do whatever parts he's held responsible for.

And yes random sharing can lead to good stuff. (Take a look at my own blogroll and keep up the looking.)

rox said...

Yeah it's a very tricky issue because if the woman decides she doesn't want to be a mother and wishes to abdicate responsability for whatever reason, she is free to get an abortion. However if the father isn't ready to parent he doesn't have a choice in whether the child will be born or not.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the father should still remain accountable to the child to matter what if a child gets born, because the child is an innocent and will need their father.

It's not the child's fault whatever the circumstances and if you chose to have sex with someone, you have to know that birth control can fail and that a woman will have the right to choose to parent if a pregnancy happens (even if she said she was pro-choice, it can be very different once you're actually pregnant!).

But all that second, the fact that the child will be born needing support and a relationship with their father it makes the whole situation really difficult for men. I don't know that I think we should change the laws to require both the man and the womans consent for abortion (because there are SO many things that could go wrong with that) but it's just a hard situation all around.

Danny said...

Yeah it's a very tricky issue because if the woman decides she doesn't want to be a mother and wishes to abdicate responsability for whatever reason, she is free to get an abortion. However if the father isn't ready to parent he doesn't have a choice in whether the child will be born or not.
Yes. This is why I think its gone from "her body her choice" to "her choice his responsibility". As in she is totally free to do whatever she wants and his level of involvement is totally dependent on her say so.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the father should still remain accountable to the child to matter what if a child gets born, because the child is an innocent and will need their father.
While I don't fully agree with that (but only in a few circumstances) I do for the most part. My problem is when people will go on about how men need to "step up" or "man up" and be with their kids then proceed to turn deaf ear and blind eye to the very men that fight tooth and nail in order to get any bit of time in their child's life. Its like people have already decided that the ONLY reason a man is not in his child's life is because he chose not to. There a lot of men out there whose very struggle proves that belief wrong.

But all that second, the fact that the child will be born needing support and a relationship with their father it makes the whole situation really difficult for men.
Ain't that the truth. Basically what a lot of people seem to push for is the idea that once a child is conceived a man should not have any say so in his level of participation in that child's life. And I'm skipping to birth because while I don't like the idea of not having a say in the life or death of something I helped create I can understand and ultimately agree with the concept of "her body her choice". Well then that 9 months ends up turning into "I carried the child for 9 months so that means I should have total and absolute control over their life including how much involvement the dad has."

And as a man this mess around child care really does leave me wondering if the people that whine about men not taking responsibility really want men to take the full responsibility for being partly responsible for creating that child or do they just want them around and only be "responsible" when its convenient. I have a coworker who has a son (and by extension his family) in such a situation.

Thanks for stopping in rox.

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