Monday, January 24, 2011

Does gender really have nothing to with it?

Okay so I'm going through my Stats page in Blogger and I came across a link to a post I used recently about the funny attempt to prove misandry doesn't exist. Well I went back and actually looked at the comments and two of the last three comments piqued my interest (the third one is actually by the owner of the blog and if nothing else just shows how ignorant and misandric she really is so avoid that one).

First there is this by orvillelloyddouglas:
Of course,misandry exists and only a misandrist would say it doesn’t exist. No one is disputing women encoutner sexual oppression in society but to suggest men do not encounter discrimination is sexist!

The author of this piece definitely sounds like a misandrist because he or she refuses to acknowledge the fact men do encounter barriers in society such as men of colour. Let me guess, the author of this piece totally ignores men of colour, gay men, immigrant men of all races are vulnerable in society.

Men do encounter discrimination. Why do some women act as though sexism only affects their lives? The word “sexism” isn’t just for one specific gender it affects BOTH genders! I am a black man and black men encounter misandry on multiple levels in terms of employment, housing, education, dealing with the police. Young black men are most likely to die by the time we are 30 compared to our white counterparts. Black men are incarcerated at a higher rate in American than white men. Men do encounter discrimination and I believe it is misandrist of the author of this article to state otherwise.

and then this one by my pal April:
You’re really just talking about racism. The issues you face as a black man do not affect white men in the same way. You’re not discriminated against because you’re a man, but because you’re black (judging from the examples you gave in your comment). Obviously that is a problem, but not the one being discussed in this thread.


As you can see orvillelloyddouglas has countered the author's rather silly claim that misandry does not exist and April seems to think that his gender has nothing to do with the things that he points out. Let's see.

Employment - If you are familiar with the fact that largest portion of America's prison population is made up of black and latino men you can see how this will affect our odds at a job if we have a record. Education also plays in to this.

Education - When you look at the stats boys are lagging behind girls in nearly every demographic that's measured these days. Girls (who have often out done boys in language and writing fields) are catching up and surpassing boys in the science and math fields (while still keeping their lead in language and writing). Yes black boys are lagging behind white boys but anyone that tries to make this about race is only trying to keep from lending a helping hand to boys. Even if all those black boys woke up white tomorrow they would STILL be lagging behind girls.

Dealing with the police - This is probably the only one where that "its not gender, its race" argument has a leg to stand on. While police brutality happens to men and women it seems that it happens to people of color more often than whites.

But orvillelloyddouglas does make one other point that I think even the so called "progressives" seem to miss.
Let me guess, the author of this piece totally ignores men of colour, gay men, immigrant men of all races are vulnerable in society.
If you look at men of color and women color you can plainly see that racism affects them differently. Black men are stereotyped as oversexxed thugs while black women are stereotyped as gold diggers who pop out babies to hoard welfare benefits. Latin women are stereotyped as being maids and baby factories while Latin men are stereotyped as thugs and gardeners. The list goes on. Point is racism does change up with gender.

Take a look at homosexuality. You really want to say that a gay man's gender really has nothing to do with the homophobia he experiences? You're lying if you try to say such a thing. Part of the gender policing in homophobia against gay men is to tease, harass, abuse, and otherwise torment them because they are violating a major part of the script of being a "real man". Part of why homophobes go nuts is over the fact that gay men aren't sexually interested in women and that somehow means they are not "real men". If that's not a case to support the existence of misandry then I don't know what is.

And just to drive the point home let's talk about transgender men. Oh there are lot of people out there that think is a man wasn't born with a penis then he's not a "real man". Don't have testicles? No man card for you. Don't have a penis that can get erect in order to (look back up at homophobia) penetrate a woman? Man status revoked. Unable to impregnate a woman? No sperm = not a man. Hold up you still have breasts, ovaries, labia, and a vagina? Imposter!

And just like homophobes, some transphobes have no problem escalating to violence.

While some of what he was saying was racism some of what he was pointing was indeed, despite what others might think (and I'll leave it at that since I'm involving April in this and unlike the writer of that blog I actually have respect for April), hatred against men because of their gender. Folks misandry exist and no amount spewed hatred or attempting to make all about women is going to change that.

9 comments:

April said...

Ugh, THAT thread, on THAT blog. Barf me a river. I forgot about that.

I got blocked from that blog shortly after that exchange, which I'm sure you know makes me just so sad, but yeah. I remember that comment. And I see your point here, that men and women of color are treated differently, and so gender definitely plays a role. I still stand by what I said in response to that specific commenter, though, that his skin color was the primary cause of what he was saying was misandry, although you're right, his gender certainly did play a role.

April said...

...And, as I'm sure you know, I think misandry exists. Definitely.

Danny said...

I have to admit that I have a bit of a grudge against that blogger since last year when she called me a "white dude" and then deleted the comment where I tried to tell her that I wasn't white.

But as for what was said there there when disagreeing with you its more "April said this but I disagree here's why....". On the other hand with factcheckme its more like "This loudmouth has no idea what the hell she's talking about and here is why she needs to shut the hell up and go away...".

Danny said...

Yeah I know. What mostly set me off about that post was being reminded of that woman's irony of invoking misandry while trying to disproves its existence. That would be on par with me trying to prove that misogyny doesn't exist while calling women bitches that should be making sandwiches for me in the same post.

Jut Gory said...

I would have to agree with April's impression.

The examples he used did not seem to "control" for gender or race. I agree that it "exists" (as much as any other concepts formulated by feminist/masculist jargon), but those may not have been good examples for him to use.

For example, he said, "Black men are incarcerated at a higher rate in American than white men." While I do not doubt that, the buzz on MRA sites is that MEN make up a much larger percentage of the population than WOMEN.

And, yes, that blog is basically worthless for anyone who wants to engage in a civil discussion (imagine that: incivility on the INTERNET!).
-jUT

Jut Gory said...

I would have to agree with April's impression.

The examples he used did not seem to "control" for gender or race. I agree that it "exists" (as much as any other concepts formulated by feminist/masculist jargon), but those may not have been good examples for him to use.

For example, he said, "Black men are incarcerated at a higher rate in American than white men." While I do not doubt that, the buzz on MRA sites is that MEN make up a much larger percentage of the population than WOMEN.

And, yes, that blog is basically worthless for anyone who wants to engage in a civil discussion (imagine that: incivility on the INTERNET!).

-Jut

Danny said...

Thanks for dropping by Jut.

Jut:
"Black men are incarcerated at a higher rate in American than white men." While I do not doubt that, the buzz on MRA sites is that MEN make up a much larger percentage of the population than WOMEN.
Actually a part of that buzz is pointing out the fact that the largest portion of the prison population are latino and black men. Unlike feminist sites that absolutely refuse to acknowledge that gender has something to do with the fact that boys are lagging being girls in school in most demographics and measures. To them the problem is race, not gender.

Jut Gory said...

Hey Danny,
Found this site through ethecofem.
Yes, there is definitely a racial component that can be traced through many issues, whether it is prison population or education. That is what makes it difficult to isolate being male as a factor in it. And, yes, feminist sites are more likely to focus on the racial component; any focus on the disadvantages facing men and boys is generally met with derision and dismissal.
-Jut

Danny said...

That is what makes it difficult to isolate being male as a factor in it.
I can understand that it might be hard for them to see it but what bothers me is that even when its shown to them they'd rather deny it.

Example: People don't have any problem calling homophobia against gay women misogyny. So how does it stand to reason that homophobia against gay men is only an act of misogyny? As if the only reason gay men are attacked is because of hatred of women. As I said they are also attacked because they are not following the script of what a "real man" is supposed to be. However that almost never comes up in conversation about hatred against gay men.

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