Thursday, September 24, 2009

Because JS-Kit doesn't like comments of over 3000 characters...

About two weeks ago I did a post called No need to apologize because you're wrong anyway. Well one of there was one comment that required a rather long response. So long in fact that I've just learned that my comment software JS-Kit has a 3000 character max on comments.

Here is the comment from Julian:
Richard Leader is not alone as a man in his analysis of what's messed up about MRA psycho-logic. I admire that piece of his and publicly thank him for writing it. It's about time this nonsense of "men are oppressed by women too" is called out for what it is (stoo-pid), and that "misandry" is recognised for what it is: not structurally, institutionally, or socially significant, not a harmful or deadly phenomenon, and just a useful word-weapon for extremely privileged men to rant-and-banter about rather than take responsibility for what we and other men to do collectively and individually to oppress women.

What have you done to stop the endemic rape of women by men today? Why is "ending rape" not on men's "top 100" list of important things to deal with? Oh, that's right: because three women wrote thirty years ago some angry stuff about men. Boo hoo. God, it's hard being a man in a male supremacist land, isn't it? It's hard out here for a pimp, right?

Complaining about "misandry" is more important than challenging other men to help end men's rape and exploitation and subordination of women???? Please, make the case.

And I'm sure you'll find all kinds of fancy diversionary arguments for not dealing with men's actual violence against and subordination of women, in all its ugly MANifestations. And I'm sure there are MRA jerks (no, really, get this:) who will prefer to talk about how someone used the word "MANifestation". And who died from such words being uttered, exactly? Who died from "misandry"? Oh, men died, but from MEN's hatred of other men, not women's alleged "hatred of men". (And who cooks men's food, usually, and wiped your ass clean when you were a baby?) Yeah, going on and on about "how much [far too few] women don't like us", has got to be more important an action to take than calling out men's misogyny when you see it happening in front of you. Because, really--he said sarcastically--it is ALL about the men, right? We're the only humans who matter enough to enrage us about rape and child molestation, poverty and racism: if and when it happens to males by males and white male supremacist capitalist institutions. Grow some compassion for what happens to people WHO AREN'T YOU, Danny and FOD (friends of Danny). And stop defending dickheads.


And here is my response:

It's about time this nonsense of "men are oppressed by women too" is called out for what it is (stoo-pid), and that "misandry" is recognised for what it is: not structurally, institutionally, or socially significant, not a harmful or deadly phenomenon, and just a useful word-weapon for extremely privileged men to rant-and-banter about rather than take responsibility for what we and other men to do collectively and individually to oppress women.
So the fact that women harm men is not significant? I never said it was worse than what women do to men and I never said what men do to women was not significant or important. And frankly for you to reduce someone's experiences to nothing just because they may not happen as often as someone else's is insulting.

What have you done to stop the endemic rape of women by men today? Why is "ending rape" not on men's "top 100" list of important things to deal with?
Well at first I'm working on making sure I don't do such things and on occasion when I have the opportunity to say something about rape jokes I speak up. But most importanly I'm trying to learn by reading women's experiences to I can get over my own fears. I didn't know men had a top 100 list of important things to do. Do women have a top 100 list of important things to do and if so what's on it?

Oh, that's right: because three women wrote thirty years ago some angry stuff about men. Boo hoo. God, it's hard being a man in a male supremacist land, isn't it? It's hard out here for a pimp, right?
Misdirect. The things are I talk about happened in the past and are happening now. And I don't know where you're from but where I'm from being male is not the key to kingdom that you make it out to be. Frankly I've never been that much for wanting power but folks like you keep assigning it to me. And who mentioned prostitution?

Complaining about "misandry" is more important than challenging other men to help end men's rape and exploitation and subordination of women???? Please, make the case.
Find me where I said it was more important. I've said its also important. I've said it also needed to be addressed. I've said it also needs to be dealt with. But I never tried to say which was more important but despite that I'm the one trying to compre oppressions right?

And I'm sure you'll find all kinds of fancy diversionary arguments for not dealing with men's actual violence against and subordination of women, in all its ugly MANifestations.
There you go again trying to accuse me of trying to cover up that fact that men commit violence against women and trying to control them. When did I say this again? And here I was thinking on the occasions where I point out that feminists do have a point and not advocating just blindly believing men over women was at least some proof that I don't make such claims.

And I'm sure there are MRA jerks (no, really, get this:) who will prefer to talk about how someone used the word "MANifestation".
I'm sure there are. I just hope they also talk about the fact that you are saying it for the sole purpose of trying to get a rise out of them just you can go back and cry foul later. That whole self fulfilling prophecy thing.

And who died from such words being uttered, exactly? Who died from "misandry"? Oh, men died, but from MEN's hatred of other men, not women's alleged "hatred of men".
Misandry is just a hatred of men and has nothing to do with who is performing the hating so be it man or woman it would still be misandry. So with that I'll say, war combatants sent into action by men and women that support the war in question despite knowing full well most of them are men and male violence victims because "women don't do things like that" or "he must have done something to deserve it" or "it doesn't happen that often". And besides its not a point who was killed by it but a matter of who has been targeted by it. I'm pretty sure misgyny is not limited to who is killed right?

(And who cooks men's food, usually, and wiped your ass clean when you were a baby?)
Are you trying to say that since women have done good things in the past there is no way women could hate men?

Yeah, going on and on about "how much [far too few] women don't like us", has got to be more important an action to take than calling out men's misogyny when you see it happening in front of you.
Amazing how you are using your own experience as the template for all men's experiences. And once again I never tried to say which was more important you're the one doing that.

Because, really--he said sarcastically--it is ALL about the men, right?
??? What's your line of logic here?

We're the only humans who matter enough to enrage us about rape and child molestation, poverty and racism: if and when it happens to males by males and white male supremacist capitalist institutions.
I really wish you would point out the part where I said women don't matter or that only men matter.

Grow some compassion for what happens to people WHO AREN'T YOU
I actually am growing compassion for people who aren't me and feminists have a hand it that but as much as you don't like it MRAs have had a hand in it as well.

,Danny and FOD (friends of Danny).
Please please I don't think I have enough of a following for my visitors to get a group name like Friends of Danny. Although it has a nice ring to it and if I do have such a following I must remember to credit you for coining it here first.

And stop defending dickheads
And the funny part is I'm willing to bet that you would be able to recognize and call out someone who calls someone a pussy as a sexist attempt at linking a female body part to cowardice (learned that one from feminists and thanks to them I have nearly removed that reference from my personal vocabulary) but are unable to recognize that you are calling people dickheads as a sexist attempt at linking a male body part to an unlikable person. Or perhaps you recognize and think that by doing so you can win from brownie points from feminists. I heard they don't give brownie points like that, well at least the reasonable ones don't. You know that whole wanting equality for everyone thing they have going on.

So in conclusion you haven't done anything here but make unbackable accusations, put words in my mouth, and throw personal insults. I'm fine with that and I'm fine with you choosing to help women. What I'm not fine with is that when someone decides to help men you get your underclothes bunched up and start crying that since there are men hurting women nothing else and no one else matters. And for some reason you also seem to think that a subset of men doing bad things somehow disqualifies the entire gender from getting help unless its a side effect of helping women first.

Rest assured Julian I'm not trying to put you on the spot I just refuse to try to break this response into several comments (and I tried for about 10 minutes). Thanks for stopping by.
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